Hepcats!
 Lexington, KY

Dedicated to the original swing dances of the 1930's and
40's swing-era,
Lindy Hop, Balboa
& Collegiate Shag,
and the great swing music of that era!

Celebrating 11 years of teaching and promoting the best in all things swing dance!

Battle of the Big Bands

What is a Battle of the Big Bands? 
To answer that question, let's first get some historical context.
The golden age of the Big Band era, from about 1935-1949, was unique in that it was the music listened to by all generations in the 1930's and 40's, young and old alike.  In the early 1940's, it is estimated that there were over 400 bands (some were known as "regional" or "territory" bands), often criss-crossing the country, playing night after night of one night stands, looking for that elusive "break".  And that number doesn't include the many "local" big bands that often played for community dances and events.

Just as there were hundreds of big bands, there were numerous dance halls and ballrooms all over the United States, and promoters and ballroom owners would sometimes stage "Battles of the Bands" as a marketing tool, to attract patrons, etc...  These events usually occurred between a house and a guest band.

The most successful bands of the big band era were enormously popular.  In many ways the members of those bands were the "rock stars" of their era.  All the major big bands had fan clubs with huge followings.  There were numerous magazines devoted to swing music and the big bands.  These magazines would conduct votes and polls on which band was the best; the most popular; which played the "hottest" arrangements, etc.  Fans would debate which band had the better band leader, the better trumpeter, the better drummer, the better soloist, etc...  Music fans of that era followed not only their favorite band but the individual members of those bands, much as sports fans knew the starting lineup of their favorite baseball team.  The hiring of an individual musician from one band to another was often big news. 

This competition between fans about "who was better" also existed among the big bands themselves, and these "Battles of the Bands" were sometimes taken quite seriously, especially among the major big bands.  The members of the big bands had respect for other band members and their talents, but they also took a lot of pride in their craft and musicianship.  Not only was the band's reputation at stake, but winning a battle of the bands contest could lead to more lucrative bookings and radio air time, which would often result in greater record sales.

The Savoy Ballroom
While "Battle of the Bands" took place all over the United States, the Savoy Ballroom in the Harlem district of New York City made these events famous.  Advertised as "The Home of Happy Feet," this famous Harlem hot spot opened on March 12, 1926 and occupied the entire block of 140th to 141st street on Lennox Avenue and quickly became the most popular dance venue in Harlem.  The club featured an elegant lobby with a marble staircase leading upstairs to the ballroom which was the entire length of a city block.  Unlike the 'whites only' policy of the Cotton Club, the Savoy Ballroom was integrated where white and black Americans danced together.  A double bandstand allowed for alternating bands to play continuous music late into the night.  Always at the forefront for new dances, the Lindy Hop, the original swing dance, was developed at the Savoy in the late 1920's/early 1930's.

 The Savoy regularly staged "Battle of the Bands" promotions and several of these "battles" involved the greatest and most famous big bands of the swing era.  These competitions at the Savoy were so popular and attracted such loyal fans, police were sometimes called to settle disputes between the crowds, control vehicle and foot traffic, etc.  Invariably the Savoy was packed when these events took place and the crowd would vote as to who was their favorite band, band leader and vocalist for the evening.

The Chick Webb Orchestra
Chick WebbIf the Savoy Ballroom was the epicenter of Battles of the Big Bands in the swing era, the Chick Webb Orchestra was probably involved in more of these "battles" at the Savoy than any other big band.   Chick Webb was one of the greatest and most influential jazz drummers of all time.  In 1927, Webb took his band to the Savoy Ballroom and quickly won over crowds with a flashy, flamboyant, and energetic style.  Although he could not read sheet music, Webb memorized every piece and led the band from a raised platform in the center of the stage, cueing sections with his drumming.  By 1931, Webb's Orchestra was the Savoy Ballroom "house band".
 
Webb had been a tough contender in "battles" of the bands at the Savoy since the time he defeated the mighty Joe 'King' Oliver in 1927.  Sammy Lowe was playing with the young Erskine Hawkins big band when they had a clash with Webb.  Webb's band played first.  "What does he lay on us," noted Lowe, "but Clap Hands! Here Comes Charley! and someone said to Webb, 'Take pity on a baby, don't you be treating those young boys like that.'  Webb said, 'I wouldn't take pity on a baby here in New York.  They here in New York, they here in the Savoy, let 'em stand!'"

When Glen Gray and the Casa Loma Orchestra came to the Savoy, Teddy McRae (a tenor-saxophonist in Webb's band) recalls, they telegraphed ahead:  "Play something to get us in the mood."  Webb said, "We'll get 'em in the mood."  Webb surprised not only the Casa Loma Orchestra but his own band by opening with a torrid arrangement of Tiger Rag that the band sometimes played on the road but rarely at the Savoy.  "You remember Tiger Rag as some corny piece of material," says McRae.  "Not the way we played it--sensational!  We had to play it twice before they'd let us stop."  The Casa Loma Orchestra finished second that night.

On another night (Sunday, March 7, 1937) Webb goaded Duke Ellington into a "battle" of the bands.  As Teddy McRae tells it, "Chick said, 'We gonna make this cat work tonight.'  Duke was tellin' Chick, 'Look man, we got the place full, we ain't gettin' no more money, why knock our brains out?'  Chick would come back and --bam!--throw another big set on him.  After a while, people were saying, 'Come on Duke!  Come on Duke!'  The third set got Duke's skin up.  He started vampin' about five minutes on Big John's Special.  He jumped on that thing and Rex Stewart (Ellington's cornet player) was like he was in another world and Ellington's band was swinging and something had to give and about five of those big windows downstairs broke right in half."

Ellington won that battle, as Webb conceded to Sandy Williams (a trombone player in Webb's band):  "They're swingin' the hell out of us in our own joint."
"Battles of the Big Bands" that took place at the Savoy Ballroom:
● Saturday, February 2, 1935:  Chick Webb vs Willie Bryant - Result, Draw.
● Sunday, February 28, 1937:  Chick Webb vs Fletcher Henderson - Result, Webb won.
● Sunday, March 7, 1937:  Chick Webb vs Duke Ellington - Result, Ellington won (see info above).
● Tuesday, May 11, 1937:  Chick Webb vs Benny Goodman - Result, Webb won (see info below).
● Sunday, January 16, 1938:  Chick Webb vs Count Basie - Result, Webb won (see info below).
● Sunday, July 31, 1938:  Chick Webb vs Horace Henderson - Result, Webb won.

Other "Battles of the Big Bands":
● April, 1941:  Gene Krupa vs Jimmie Lunceford, Baltimore, MD.  Result, Lunceford won.  According to Graham Young, trumpeter for Gene Krupa, "It was no fight at all - -we lost terribly, it was a rout.  They pulled one thing in the first set.  They started the last number and I remember the first guy to quit was the drummer, but the dancers kept on cooking as if they had one. Then, pretty soon afterwards, the bass player left, then the guitar and the piano, and they were swinging like crazy without a rhythm section at all - thus proving they were just using a rhythm section for sound, they weren't leaning on it". Christian Batchelor: "This Thing Called Swing" p. 239.
● Lucky Millinder vs Charlie Barnet:  more info to follow.
● Louis Jordan vs Lionel Hampton:  more info to follow.

Let's take a look at two of the most famous "Battles of the Bands" that took place at the Savoy Ballroom.

Back to Top
Tuesday, May 11th, 1937:  Chick Webb vs Benny Goodman.


Benny Goodman is well known as a clarinet player and a leader of one of the most successful big bands of the swing era.
By 1937, Benny Goodman's big band was one of the top band's in the swing era. 

As noted above, Chick Webb's Orchestra was the Savoy Ballroom "house band" for much of the 1930's. 

For this battle, let's let the actual participants describe of the event.

As Teddy McCrae relates, "The most remarkable battle we had was with Benny Goodman.  That was the great battle of all times.  Benny came up a few nights and he listened to what we was doing and every time he would come up we would change the tempos.  We wouldn't play King Porter Stomp in our best tempo, just play it ordinary.  But the night of the battle we had a rehearsal and we put everything back in position the way it was supposed to be."

Mario Bauza, another of Chick Webb's sidemen, remembers how important this event was to Webb and his address to the band on the eve of the battle:  "This is the turning point of this band.  You know how much this means to me.  So I don't have to tell you any guy that miss anything during the period of the night, don't wait for me to give him his notice-don't show up for work no more."

Charles Buchanan, the Savoy manager that night, recalls that he could only pack about 7,000 people into the Savoy that night, leaving thousands more outside.  Police struggled with the crowds. 

Taft Jordan, another sideman in Webb's band, relates "There was policemen--sergeants, lieutenants, captains--everything out there!  Harlem traffic was at a standstill."

Buchanan further describes the battle between the two bands:  "When one got through, the other got hotter.  What a fabulous business I was in!  They just battled and battled."

Goodman's band played first.  Then Webb's band came on and closed the set with an arrangement of Harlem Congo, one of Webb's hottest arrangements.  "When he got through that number," says Mario Bauza, "that was the end of the night.  I remember Tommy Dorsey in the ballroom [a lot of the big band bandleaders were at the Savoy that night] saying, 'I bet you $2,000 that Chick whip Benny tonight.'"    

At the end of the evening, it was agreed that the contest was close, but that Webb's band, with new singer Ella Fitzgerald providing the vocals, "washed away Goodman's band".

Gene Krupa, Goodman's drummer, gracefully conceded that Chick Webb had the better band and was the better drummer that evening:  "Chick really did me up that night.  I've never been cut by a better man."

                                                                                                                                                             
Some of Benny Goodman's band members from the night of May 11th, 1937:(L-R);  Harry Goodman, Bass; Gene Krupa, Drums; Harry James, Trumpet.

Back to Top

Sunday, January 16th, 1938:  Chick Webb vs Count Basie.


As noted above, Chick Webb's Orchestra was the Savoy Ballroom "house band" for much of the 1930's.

William "Count" Basie became the pianist with the Benie Moten band based in Kansas City in the late 1920's.  After Moten died in 1935, Basie became the leader of the band.  At the end of  1936, he moved his band to New York City where it remained until 1950.

The article to the right, published in the February 1938 edition of Downbeat magazine, describes the results of this Battle of the Bands.  An interesting historical note is that this event took place on the same night after Benny Goodman's famous concert at Carnegie Hall.  It's also interesting to note how many major figures from the swing era were in attendance at this event, to include:

      ► Gene Krupa and Lionel Hampton, two members of the Benny Goodman Orchestra; both later led their own big band.

     ► Willie Bryant, leader of the Willie Bryant Orchestra, one of the most popular big bands in Harlem in the 1930's.

     ► Duke Ellington; note that Duke played with the Count Basie band that night.

Want to experience a "Battle of the Big Bands"
right here in Lexington?

 Don't miss the Hepcats/UK School of Music
Battle of the Big Bands on Saturday,
April 14th, 2012 at the UK Student Center Grand Ballroom.


 Click here for all the info!

Home | Classes | Dance Events | Calendar | FAQ | Resources | About Us | Contact | Performance Group